Indiana Gregg and Ian Morrow: Still mastering the internet

by ZJ — 17 July 2008

"When your only weapons are lawsuits, everyone looks like a defendant."

rmuser, The Banality of Gregg (2008)

On 14 July, "Tim Hardwell" posted a comment expressing mild disagreement with my article about Indiana Gregg. Yesterday, "generationx" posted a similar comment. Both comments originated from the same IP address, 82.9.58.47, owned by Virgin Media of Britain. If I were the RIAA, I would consider an identical IP to be conclusive proof that they're the same person, but the idea that one IP corresponds to one person doesn't accurately reflect reality—that standard of evidence has led the RIAA to legally threaten printers. Many British ISPs, running out of address space, use network address translation, which makes many users appear to have the same IP. In the past, I've inadvertently banned a large region of Britain by blocking a single IP. I haven't been able to determine whether Virgin users are subject to NAT[1], but even if they are, this still indicates that "Tim Hardwell" and "generationx" are using the same ISP and live in the same area. Moreover, they've commented within two days of each other, on a site with only 1,400 readers[2], making it very likely that they're the same person. With some trivial internet detectiving, I've uncovered evidence suggesting that this person is Indiana Gregg, or her husband Ian Morrow, or both of them.

From April to September of 2007, the IP 82.9.49.104 (also owned by Virgin) edited Wikipedia several times, focusing exclusively on articles related to Indiana Gregg. Both 82.9.49.104 and 82.9.58.47 are part of Virgin's Renfrew area, a town six miles west of Glasgow. Indiana Gregg currently lives in Glasgow, and on 17 May 2007, 82.9.49.104 made an edit to Gregg's Wikipedia article, replacing it with a link to her website and MySpace page. The edit was signed:

Thankyou...... Ian Morrow Gr8pop Ltd

There's those pesky ellipses again! Wikipedia generally doesn't like it when one person makes the unilateral decision to delete an entire article that dozens of people have collaborated on, especially if they replace it with blatant advertising. Morrow's edit was treated as vandalism, and reverted in less than a minute. 12 minutes later, Wikipedia user IanMorrow erased the article, saying it was "now unavailable, subject to our enquiries with wikipedia". Once again, this was reverted four minutes later. Morrow blanked the page again. His edit was reverted again. Rather than learning something from this, he opted to fire off a legal threat for no apparent reason:

To whom ever it may be, constantly editing this page.... The violation of our artists page is now subject of legal action in the UK. If you continually edit and defame our artist you will become subject to legal proceedings also.

This page is now down

Ian Morrow

Diector Gr8Pop Ltd

The "Diector" failed to specify exactly what was defamatory about Gregg's article, and this page was now up again in less than a minute. Morrow then blanked the talk page for Gregg's article, and blanked the article thrice more in the next 10 minutes, at which point he was blocked indefinitely for making legal threats. User:Littleredm&m registered the day after Morrow was blocked. This utterly thrilling Wiki-drama simmered down for a year, before flaring up again when Morrow and Gregg began threatening The Pirate Bay.

Morrow's first email to TPB on 22 June 2008 originated from 82.9.50.198, another IP in Virgin's Renfrew area. From 2 July to 12 July, User:Carribeanqueen made numerous edits to the Wikipedia articles on Indiana Gregg and The Pirate Bay, nearly all of which contained material heavily promoting Gregg's point of view, and several links to her personal blog. Carribeanqueen also changed the phrase "Digital Millennium Copyright Act" in Gregg's article to "Digital Millineum Copyright Act". Gregg referred to the "Digital Millineum Copyright act" in her 23 June 2008 email to TPB. Carribeanqueen also claims to be a journalist, and was warned to stop reverting everyone else's edits to the Indiana Gregg article. Two days after Carribeanqueen stopped editing, Littleredm&m made their first edits since registering in 2007. Nearly all of their edits revert the Indiana Gregg article to contain material contributed by Carribeanqueen, including many links to Gregg's websites.

82.9.58.47, who replied twice to my post under different names, made two edits to Wikipedia while this was all going on. Both were edits to the Indiana Gregg article, and the latest edit, made on the same day as the reply of "Tim Hardwell", added the same Gregg-promoting material contributed by Carribeanqueen and Littleredm&m. On that day, Littleredm&m made another edit referring to the G8 summit's handling of piracy, which is also mentioned in the reply of "Tim Hardwell". A Wikipedia administrator has now listed Carribeanqueen, Littleredm&m, and 82.9.58.47 as suspected sockpuppets—one person using multiple identities. The article about Gregg was then protected from editing until the sockpuppet issue can be conclusively resolved.

To Indiana Gregg, Ian Morrow, Littleredm&m, Carribeanqueen, Tim Hardwell, generationx, and whoever you'll be masquerading as tomorrow: What is wrong with you? I'm honestly curious. What could possibly make you think this was a good idea? That's precisely the problem with your ignorance of contemporary technology: When you try pulling a stupid stunt like this, you'll be caught in the act by people more capable than yourselves. This advice will serve you well in any situation: If you don't know how something works, don't touch it. Maybe instead of legally threatening Wikipedia for no reason, flagrantly disregarding its guidelines and attempting to hide behind different names, you should just stop. Stop it. Stop all of this, right now. This is not the behavior people expect from professionals, and it speaks very poorly of you when you're unwilling to even defend yourselves using your real names.

I suppose that's the responsible thing to say, but on the other hand, this sort of insanity is hilarious! Keep it up.

Update, 20 July 2008: The Master of Sockpuppets made three more comments—each with its own identity, of course. The first was from 82.9.58.47; evidently she didn't bother reading this post before replying. After I called her out on this, she posted the next two from 212.183.134.66, which is shared among British subscribers to Vodafone's 3G internet service. Plug in one of their USB modem sticks or datacards, and you're on a whole other ISP. Tricky! The problem is she clicked here from another page where she had replied thrice under her real name, and her user agent was identical to that of 82.9.58.47.

Hey, at least she was observant enough to notice my website is pink. I've also noticed her websites autoplay crappy music that nobody actually wants to steal.

Update, 23 July 2008: User:Littleredm&m removed the entire section on the talk page for Gregg's article that accused her of using sockpuppets, which also included a link to this post. I'm pretty sure this is considered unacceptable under some obscure Wikipedia policy.

Update, 26 July 2008: Yesterday, User:Littleredm&m and 82.9.58.47 were blocked from Wikipedia for being the same person, as identified by CheckUser, and for having a conflict of interest. Meanwhile, Gregg and Morrow had some tabloid run a puff piece uncritically promoting their idiotic claims of "cyber-bullying", "250,000 illegal downloaders", "policing of the web" and "internet passports". You know, it's not "cyber-bullying" when you make such obviously stupid statements, and everyone else points out exactly how stupid this is. Seriously, these people are acting like facts are tear gas. I'd also really like to see how they came up with the figure of 250,000 that they keep repeating. They haven't explained this at all, and I'm starting to think they might be lying or something.

Notes

1 Update, 18 July 2008: Reliable sources have informed me that Virgin Media allocates one IP address per customer, which can remain static for months.

2 Approximately 0.0001% of about 1.4E+9 global internet users.

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34 comments (hide) RSS feed for comments on this post

Wow. Is there a tool to look up wikipedia edits by ip?
It's called CheckUser, only certain Wikipedia users can access it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:CheckUser

WikiScanner will search through edits made by anonymous users. http://wikiscanner.virgil.gr/
How dare you besmirch my good name. I am now suing you because the pink on this site has blinded me. See you in court.
This page is now down.
This page is now down.

Funny. At last glance, I am viewing this page. Perhaps I may have travelled to the past, which explains why this website is still up.

If I were you, I'd put away your magical litigation powers and do something decent for once. But then again, I'm sure rmuser wants another addition to his Legal Threats page, so go crazy.
@Americanadian: I think you just fed the troll.
lol hay guise wats goin on
>>627
That made me cringe. What a fucking idiot.
Nice work, that is quite funny... For the record I ma in Scotland on Virgin (they suck btw) they use dynamic dns, it doesn't change too often though.
I thought this thing was just a big series of tubes. Damn ones and zeros get ya every time. Wait, am I going to be sued for commenting here?
Thanks for the links rmuser.
>>629
Disregard that, I suck cocks.
wow, this seems to be the only thing you can find? a couple of guys who claim to be mods for the pirate bay now claim sockpuppetry on a wiki page? and I thought I'd find something about porn or proper vandalism here. This is pathetic.
Just so you're aware, >>635 is also 82.9.58.47.
this is the weirdest and most ridiculous pink page I've seen in my day. who would go to the trouble of
writing about some odd vandlism on a wikipedia page? what a tosser. pink, gay, strange??
Let me guess... Is >>637 also 82.9.58.47? Or maybe 82.9.58.47 learned how to power-cycle the modem to change IPs?
well, the best part only seems to come!

suddenly the article with that "uncomfortable" photo of IAN and Melissa aka Indiana that reported about her home concert for this cancer sufferers and where the picture from was cited among other places in the TF comments in the "don't humiliate yourself"-post has magicly disapeared from the intertubes. Nowhere to find with a search, and even searching "indiana gregg" gives no more results.
It seems at least with the sunday mail the Greggsche Vandals were succesful in bullying!
(who was bullying who again?) Hint, humiliating is not the same as bullying!

Shit, I forgot to use a proxy, now you have the real IP of my friend's ISP account. Please do not tell them that it is a deutsche telekom one. The gregg groupies see her ex -that left her a few years ago when he wasted this 35 years [as of april 8 2007] old chick from american province obviously for good- in everybody even remotely german and will shout "murder" and "rape" and will say I of course must be the guy that produced this 3 little german geneclusters that slipped out of Melissa!

Thanks for your consideration.
;-)
>>642
What the fuck are you even trying to say? I've seen spambots post more coherent shit than your comment.
Christ this is sad.
Crivens!
this is the lulz
this is a really stupid post because anyone could use those IP addresses as a proxy. plus, if you run a whois on indianagregg.com, you see that she lives in france. so, the guy writing this blog is a complete
idiot
Any IP address can be used as a proxy, and whois information is always accurate. Yeah, someone here is definitely a complete idiot.
>>648
There is no way this dude would know how to forger an ip like that, it would take mad hacking skills
It is easy to get an IP. You just take it from the header in an email.
then you go download hide IP software and manually enter the
iP address. You can use anyone's IP that has ever sent an email to
you. That IP address that is in this blog post was simply an IP address
that was on one of the wikipedia history entries. Anyone who has written and email to Gregg would have an IP address from her most likely in the header. When you read the wiki page discussion, it doesn't look like it would be either her or her husband because all the people are saying is that they are going to post her divorce on the internet and there is a mad wikieditor2008 who wikipedia sent a warning to for vandalism (so, they guy says he's 'leaving' wikipedia now because he was so mistreated. Even though her was simply caught vandalising the page.) That guy also claimed that he was a 'mod' for TPB. He was the same guy who was accusing every other editor of being a sockpuppet. Any experienced wikieditor can give a warning. Only wiki decides who is a sockpuppet.
So, from what I can see, none of those people being accused of a sockpuppet have been banned. Except that the wikieditor2008 was given a warning. (and he, by the way, was also the guy who was doing the vandalising and also making the sockpuppet threats on the page.
It looks like a one man show and I don't think that Ms. Gregg of her husband would write a bunch of lies on her own page.)

To me, it looks like a couple of people who have used Gregg's IP address on some blogs so that TPB could at least find something
that they could try to 'humiliate' with because that's what they try to
do and that's what they mention in their legal threats section on the site.

This case is funny because Gregg nor her husband ever made a legal threat to them. They just asked for the link to be taken down. (not content). They also mentioned that they need to do this under certain jurisdiction so that they are covered under the DMCA (and it doesn't matter whether a site is in Sweden or Siberia because the files are being shared all over the world. Basically, Ms. Gregg is obliged to make the site aware that the copyright is being pointed to.)

I think that whatever happened over a year ago to her wikipedia page was probably removed and that's why Ian Morrow blanked the page. He probably blanked the page and reported the content to wikipedia. They more than likely removed the content. You also cannot say that Ian Morrow was sockpuppeting. He was using his own name. So, this makes no sense.

Just so you know, Virgin media nearly has a monopoly in the UK. and I believe that Gregg is a UK aritst. They are one of few ISPs and offer fiber-optic and higher band width. Since Gregg is based in Glasgow and would be playing in Glasgow and be involved in media in that area, it would be more likely that someone from there would edit her wikipedia biography than someone from germany or hong kong.
>>651
Why the fuck would you use a sock-puppet in an article CALLING YOU OUT FOR USING SOCK-PUPPETS. I have no idea who you are but seriously you have no idea how the internet works and you are making yourself look like a fucking retard.
>>651
No. You are so unbelievably far off on all of this.

It is easy to get an IP. You just take it from the header in an email. then you go download hide IP software and manually enter the iP address. You can use anyone's IP that has ever sent an email to you.

No. You don't have the first clue about how the internet works. You cannot specify *any* IP address to use. You can use an open proxy, a web proxy, or in your case, Tor (>>651 and >>648 are from Tor exit nodes, did you seriously think I wouldn't notice this?), but if the system located at a given IP address is not an open proxy, web proxy, or Tor exit node, you can't use it. If we could all just use whatever IP we wanted, like 0.0.0.0 or 255.255.255.255, the internet as we know it would grind to a halt. And I know that's your whole fixation, so maybe that's what you were getting at.

That IP address that is in this blog post was simply an IP address that was on one of the wikipedia history entries.

Yes. That was the point. What you think is possible with IP addresses, is not actually possible.

He was the same guy who was accusing every other editor of being a sockpuppet. Any experienced wikieditor can give a warning. Only wiki decides who is a sockpuppet.

And they did. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sus.../Carribeanqueen

So, from what I can see, none of those people being accused of a sockpuppet have been banned.

But they were. Is it that hard to keep on top of all your sockpuppet accounts?

It looks like a one man show and I don't think that Ms. Gregg of her husband would write a bunch of lies on her own page.

Really? Wikipedia admin Swatjester, the one with access to CheckUser and OTRS, knows it was you. As do the rest of us.

To me, it looks like a couple of people who have used Gregg's IP address on some blogs so that TPB could at least find something that they could try to 'humiliate' with because that's what they try to do and that's what they mention in their legal threats section on the site.

To me, it looks like a crazed idiot trying to outsmart the rest of the internet and FAILING MISERABLY AT EVERY TURN because you're JUST NOT VERY GOOD AT THIS. IP addresses do not work like that, and your statements presented without accompanying commentary are already sufficiently humiliating. I would be unfathomably ashamed of myself if I spewed such ignorant tripe online, and I can't comprehend what gave you the impression that this is anything resembling a reasonable course of action.

This case is funny because Gregg nor her husband ever made a legal threat to them. They just asked for the link to be taken down. (not content).

What makes you think you can just backtrack like this after everything else you've said online? The internet isn't a memory hole. We keep records, and we know what you said. You know what you said. Why bother trying to lie?

You also cannot say that Ian Morrow was sockpuppeting. He was using his own name. So, this makes no sense.

You're right, this makes it acceptable to legally threaten Wikipedia users for no reason. Awesome! So I guess you're the one who handles the sockpuppets, and he's the one who launches legal threats in every direction and keeps Parliament up to speed on the intellectual property disputes of indie artists?

Since Gregg is based in Glasgow

Are you in Glasgow or France? Or do you just haunt the internet full-time now?
also, just for the record, Indiana Gregg is fucking talentless and annoying, all of her songs are absolutely unbearable, gr8pop is a horrible name for a record label and you're both doomed to utter commercial failure.
Indiana Gregg is one of the worst musicians I have ever heard.

I genuinely hope that you stop pirates from downloading your music. That way, after absolutely no one buys your albums, your music will be universally unheard, soothing the ears of hundreds.

Suck my dick.

Cheers
Indiana Gregg (Melissa Morrow) already stopped pirates from downloading her music:

http://thepiratebay.org/music/artist/Indiana+Gregg

At least she stopped pirates who are aware.

Epic win for pirates, epic fail for Indiana Gregg and Ian Morrow.
Sheet, she actually does this thing (sockpupetiering) everywhere... so she searches google for her name constantly. SAD.

here's a link with some of obviously her comments:
http://torrentfreak.com/indiana-gregg-pira...ments/#comments

ps: Indiana (named after a dog, too?), if you're trying to fool anyone, be a bit more negative towards yourself in your sockpuppet posts - there are negative, positive and almost neutral posts. All of yours are in second category.
Hm indiana want more success she actually has.

btw Indiana and her dumb husband launched kerchoonz.com
But the dumbfucks havent changed the mantis password.

For everyone whose interested in this

go to http://mantis.kerchoonz.com

and log in with username: administrator and password: root
Wow - they still haven't changed the mantis password.....
Really really sad...
This woman and her (senior) husband dont have a clue as to how things work and are sooooo obvious in their replies.

I also suspect its one of these two morons who come on TF with the "Reasoned Mind" nick..

Was a little bored so just did a quick look at the wikipedia changes... Stevie Wonder would see that its Ian Moron or wife Moron :D who were making those changes.

I did like one of the comments on top saying you can pick the IP address to enter into the proxy... HAHAHAAHHAH, long time since i heard something so funny (yes, I'm geeky).

Oh well, i guess this is what happens when you run the net on a series of tubes..

Cheers!
Ryan
www.eZee.se


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